Board index Flathead Power-Technical Questions, Answers, and Suggestions Big Twin Flatties Ironhead pump on BTSV, Dick Linn???

Ironhead pump on BTSV, Dick Linn???

Post Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:06 am

Posts: 12
Hey guys. Not sure where I belong with my pursuits on my 37 UL. I have tried posting on CAImag, and another forum or two maybe with mixed results........ I discovered this forum and it seems to hopefully be more of a fit. Always looking to learn, and of course help others where I may.

Here is my 37 UL that I'm working on. This photo is taken a few years back at my shop with a friend who was into pinup style photography:
Image

I'm working on putting my 37 UL back on the road and I have rebuilt the engine myself, and adapted an Ironhead oil pump and added piston squirters..... Did this after finding Dick Linn's website! I am quite mechanically inclined. I have rebuilt and modified engines, automatic and manual transmissions, differentials, fabricated turbo systems, tuned EFI setups, built a few choppers etc, but for whatever reason the UL Harley has been quite challenging for me. I probably just haven't found the right guys to try to absorb some of their knowledge!!!

I discovered this website when researching how to improve the reliability of this UL:
https://dicklinn.webs.com/


Does anyone know how to reach him? Sure would like to pick his brain about a few things after having adapted an IH oil pump by following his instructions on his website.


I am so close to being able to put this 37 UL back on the road which is where these wonderful BTSVs belong, but I could definitely use a little help; on a few areas at least!!!!

Post Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:33 am

Posts: 1731
Location: Interlaken, NY USA

OK, you reached him, I don't know if that makes it your lucky day or not! :D
First and foremost, you didn't make it clear if that's your friend who took a selfie on your bike or a stranger who happened to be passing by your shop and your friend the photographer lured her in to pose :D :D
On to bikes:
I just recently highlighted where I am currently at with UL's and their oil on the CHP thread on this board.
A search of my previous posts and the web will trace the progression of my thinking on flatheads, oil and longevity.
If you followed the work I traced on that website, your oil system closely parallels my current thinking. I have made several changes, mostly in an effort to minimize leaking. To the system itself, I added pressure relief capability.
Major leaks were valve covers, so made mods there, and
at the juncture where oil pump body mates to engine case. I about determined that using just the 4 standard mounting studs wasn't giving me adequate clamping/sealing.
HOWEVER, That was before I discovered that a major source of leaking oil was from the tappet block bodies where they mount in the engine case. I eventually skipped gaskets and or O rings on the tappet blocks and just "glopped" the silicone seal to the tappet bodies and mounting screws. Oil leaking from the blocks seems to migrate to points down around the oil pump body and disguise itself as an oil pump leak.
This I discovered after I reverted to the original return pump and prototype gerrotor supply pump.

Also, I have enlarged the breather pipe and built from scratch a breather tower insert in the timing cover. I went with the largest size tubing possible that would fit within the cover, about 1/2" round, I believe, and then cut the inside of the pipe at an angle with the tall side towards the breather cavity entrance. I continued the 1/2" pipe pieced together in sections to fit between engine and stock exhaust pipe to the rear of the engine case, then added flexible tubing to route the breather to the rear chain.
Also removed the brass breather sleeve to reduce breather restrictions.
Anyway, it's been a long strange trip.
Also, as I mentioned in the CHP thread, I'm a firm believer of the ULR heads eliminating the biggest cause of heat problems with recofiguring the combustion chamber.
Dick.

Post Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:08 am

Posts: 12
Dick is it you?!?!?!

First, thankyou for sharing your knowledge and info that I just happened to stumble across. So I would say it is indeed a lucky day :)

lol, A dude was riding through my rural neck of the woods in central OKLA and noticed the old buildings (1918) and stopped to check it out. There he found me and my best friend (my dad; RIP) and befriended us.

We began talking, the three of us; me, my pops, and Matt our photographer buddy and we all agreed we should get some pinup stuff going on with the old buildings and the hot rods and bikes me and my dad built. The rest as they say is history!

Quick background on the bike, me and my dad.... My hero (dad) got this bike in chopper form roughly '97..... He made a considerable effort to restore it after riding it around for a while.... He did a great job, but never cared about making a 100% correct museum quality restoration, but just something that was close..... Interesting enough, having done a few restorations before this 37 UL, the projects he later involved himself in, (and me too!) were not restorations, but more "hot-rods"........ I think he always appreciated the originality of cool machines like these BTSVs, but grew to lean towards custom home brewed hot rods, choppers etc for the flexibility as compared to a restoration..... He really appreciated and respected it all, but I digress!

I have read that thread on the CHP pump. I will need to re-read it a few times to fully absorb the information. The CHP pump I believe is a gerotor style pump??? The LS engine platform uses a gerotor oil pump and it works well, this much I know!

I found that no off the shelf gaskets would seal the IH pump and prevent massive leaking overnight. I took the James gaskets for an IH pump and copied the pattern to make my own thicker gaskets, and also used copper crush washers under the pump mounting studs to prevent this leakage. What was your experience in this regard?

This UL is using the screw together valve covers which so far at least haven't leaked....

I'm still dialing this engine in and haven't been able to run it for more than a few seconds due to probably not having the timing right. Did you find that it took a while of running the engine for the the IH pump to build pressure AND begin scavenging???

Will you elaborate or point me to the right direction to understand what you mean by adding pressure relief capability?

This bike currently has what I believe to be original(ish) iron heads... However they are mismatched.... The rear head is higher compression and the front head is lower... This engine ran this way previously even though it is far from ideal.... My plan was to get it running decently with these heads and plan on soon purchasing a set of heads that were of matching compression and preferably aluminum.

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I think of them.

Thank You Dick,

-Lloyd

Post Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:49 pm

Posts: 10
Dick Lynn aka Frankenstein is the help you need. Nice guy and he hotrods these bikes and have decades of knowlegdge on these matters on lubrication. My bike's engine is close to a stock ULH, just a lil bit here and there so I eventually adopt an easier approach modifying a late (low rpm bypass type) pump plus 4 vanes rotor. I tried the CHP pump and it's really great, but work has to be done in order to prevent oil leakage due to excess oil, nothing really complicated to do, but you'll certainly need some xtra care with these high flow pumps. Cheers!

Post Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:17 pm

Posts: 1731
Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Great story about the photo you posted! Glad to hear you and your Dad shared bikes and cars as common interests. Not everyone has that. Fortunately my son and I do, only he's mostly cars and I'm mostly bikes.
I'll have to get back to you on the oil relief mod I made to the Ironhead pump system. It's been awhile. As I recall I know I used the "big" flathead supply pump and repurposed some of the centrifugal passages to enable pressure relief. I'll check it out and get back to you.
As you know Ironheads didn't incorporate pressure relief valves, mostly. There was a period in the early mid '60's where they did build in one in the pump, but then dropped that feature.
Let me look around and get back to you
Dick
And thanks for the kind words G.J.

Post Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:43 am

Posts: 1731
Location: Interlaken, NY USA

supply_800.jpg
supply_800.jpg (191.91 KiB) Viewed 736 times
O.k., been awhile getting back. I'm planning on adding a page to my website on oil pumps. But for now...
My first versions of the sporty conversion I blocked the passage in the timing cover with a set screw that the stock pump used to dump "excess" oil into the timing chest. I kept tweaking pressure gauges so on my latest version I unblocked that hole so that I can regulate pressure to about 40PSI. I'm using the "big" supply pump as a way to distribute oil to where it needs to go with the sporty pump so I use the existing oil circuit. Part of my original supply pump modification is to use the cap covering the check valve for the centrifugal bypass as the take off point for oil to my piston squirters. To make that work, I remove the welsh plug on the smooth side of the pump that covers the passage between the check valve hole and the pressure relief valve hole. Under the welsh plug is a drilling between them which needs to be plugged. In the picture you can see where the welsh plug has been covered with epoxy to reseal it.
You can see in the other pic where I made the tap off for the feed to the piston squirters.

These are just the basics, hopefully I'll finish the story on the web site soon with more pics.
pistonfeed800.jpg
pistonfeed800.jpg (236.94 KiB) Viewed 736 times

Here you can see where I moved the pressure feed take off so that I could plug the original and not have pressure oil surrounding the mounting stud.
72_pump_800.jpg
72_pump_800.jpg (161.58 KiB) Viewed 736 times

enjoy.
DD

Post Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:50 am

Posts: 10
Updates on the sporty pump on the website. Can't barely wait. As an enthusiast on the subject I bought a good condition ironhead sporty oil pump for a ridiculous low price on eBay. It was a bargain. I was really lucky that time. I think it's a 72.
ironhead pump 72 (600 x 450).jpg
ironhead pump 72 (600 x 450).jpg (68.44 KiB) Viewed 715 times

Post Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:20 am

Posts: 12
gallojunior wrote:
Dick Lynn aka Frankenstein is the help you need. Nice guy and he hotrods these bikes and have decades of knowlegdge on these matters on lubrication. My bike's engine is close to a stock ULH, just a lil bit here and there so I eventually adopt an easier approach modifying a late (low rpm bypass type) pump plus 4 vanes rotor. I tried the CHP pump and it's really great, but work has to be done in order to prevent oil leakage due to excess oil, nothing really complicated to do, but you'll certainly need some xtra care with these high flow pumps. Cheers!


Yeah man! Are you running piston oilers like Dick and I are on our ULs??

Frankenstein wrote:
Great story about the photo you posted! Glad to hear you and your Dad shared bikes and cars as common interests. Not everyone has that. Fortunately my son and I do, only he's mostly cars and I'm mostly bikes.
I'll have to get back to you on the oil relief mod I made to the Ironhead pump system. It's been awhile. As I recall I know I used the "big" flathead supply pump and repurposed some of the centrifugal passages to enable pressure relief. I'll check it out and get back to you.
As you know Ironheads didn't incorporate pressure relief valves, mostly. There was a period in the early mid '60's where they did build in one in the pump, but then dropped that feature.
Let me look around and get back to you
Dick
And thanks for the kind words G.J.


Thanks Dick. We definitely did share in our interest of hot rods and cool bikes. I found and bookmarked your site several years ago in preparation for building up and improving this UL.






Frankenstein wrote:
pistonfeed800.jpg
O.k., been awhile getting back. I'm planning on adding a page to my website on oil pumps. But for now...
My first versions of the sporty conversion I blocked the passage in the timing cover with a set screw that the stock pump used to dump "excess" oil into the timing chest. I kept tweaking pressure gauges so on my latest version I unblocked that hole so that I can regulate pressure to about 40PSI. I'm using the "big" supply pump as a way to distribute oil to where it needs to go with the sporty pump so I use the existing oil circuit. Part of my original supply pump modification is to use the cap covering the check valve for the centrifugal bypass as the take off point for oil to my piston squirters. To make that work, I remove the welsh plug on the smooth side of the pump that covers the passage between the check valve hole and the pressure relief valve hole. Under the welsh plug is a drilling between them which needs to be plugged. In the picture you can see where the welsh plug has been covered with epoxy to reseal it.
You can see in the other pic where I made the tap off for the feed to the piston squirters.

These are just the basics, hopefully I'll finish the story on the web site soon with more pics.
supply_800.jpg

Here you can see where I moved the pressure feed take off so that I could plug the original and not have pressure oil surrounding the mounting stud.
72_pump_800.jpg

enjoy.
DD



No worries, hope you had a good 4th weekend! That would be awesome if you added more useful information to your website.

I have somehow managed to crack the flathead supply pump that I modified into the "distribution block" for this sporty pump conversion...... Oil is flowing from this crack -AND- from the piston squirter hose when disconnected WHILE running the engine so that must mean that the sporty pump is working properly?!?!? It doesn't seem to be returning much oil to the oil tank when I look in with the cap off though?

QUESTIONS FOR YOU:

1. I tapped for a screw and installed it into the timing cover to close off the oil bypass into the cam chest but ended up splitting the aluminum. Next I welded the bypass passage in the timing cover closed. Will I need to reopen this hole that bypasses oil into the cam chest based upon what you've said, or can I leave it sealed up?

2. What do you mean by big supply pump? The one I'm currently running is what I believe you referred to as a "flatside" supply pump on your website?

3. Did I modify the flatside UL pump correctly according to my pictures?! I wasn't sure if the sporty pump was working but when running the engine briefly, oil is flowing from the crack in the supply pump (now a distribution block), and, oil also flows from the hose that feeds the piston oilers when removed! Also, the supply pump (distribution block) is nice and oily and full of oil when I removed it so the IH sporty pump must be working! (I THINK it MUST be working.... I briefly connected the stock sending unit to the dummy light and the light never went off. Thinking this must be a bad sending unit and/or I need to redo the wire going from my sending unit to the light on the dash) The oil pressure light not going off had me a little concerned but with oil flowing from the crack in the supply pump and the piston oiler hose that should SURELY be a sign that everything is working properly?

4. What is the thread pitch in the cam cover where the sending unit threads in? It LOOKS like NPT, but with all the other random esoteric thread pitches this engine uses, I figured I should ask!

Image
Crack in flatside supply pump

Image
Hole drilled in supply inlet chamber, and aluminum ring pressed in to block off oil from backfeeding into the cam chest.

Image
Flatside supply pump with takeoff for piston oilers.

I found that the main reason my sporty pump leaked, and I mean it leaked while sitting overnight without running the engine, was the supplied James gaskets for an ironhead sporty pump rebuild kit were too thin to seal up. So making thicker gaskets and throwing some copper crush washers under the 4 mounting bolts seemed to seal it up nicely, even though that front outside bolt does pass through the pressurized oil takeoff from your original design. Also, I did end up using bolts instead of studs to attach the sporty pump. Seemed to work better for me for some reason.

I can't thank you enough for being kind enough to share this Dick, and continuing to do so with your latest developments. I'm no stranger to turning wrenches and have a generally well developed mechanical aptitude. However, this UL has really kicked me around. I was able to run the engine last night for the longest time since rebuilding it and adding the sporty pump conversion. I probably have run the engine for 1 to 2 minutes at a time as I continue to work out bugs.

I'm running an EVO 1200 sporty CV carb on it and it seems to be good so far. However, I might need to play with different jet sizes etc to really dial it in.


gallojunior wrote:
Updates on the sporty pump on the website. Can't barely wait. As an enthusiast on the subject I bought a good condition ironhead sporty oil pump for a ridiculous low price on eBay. It was a bargain. I was really lucky that time. I think it's a 72.
ironhead pump 72 (600 x 450).jpg


I know, I'm excited for more info!

Post Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:47 am

Posts: 1731
Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Glad to see the good work! Not too many people take an interest in my travails.
1:If you can keep the oil in, and don't run a gauge on the system, you can leave the bypass closed. I opened the bypass to take stress off gasketed surfaces,(leaks) and to stop ruining the calibration on gauges by pinning the needle when cold.
2: "Big pump", just being lazy and not spelling out the centrifugal bypass pump.You know, the pump that's a "bigger Lump" :-)
3: The sleeve should block off the ports on the rotor chamber, so I'd say that part, at least, is good. If the ball and spring is removed from the pressure relief valve, and the passage in the cam cover for pressure relief oil is closed, Your take off for squirters should get plenty of oil.
4: Originally the thread pitch of the sending unit port on cam cover was, I believe, 3/8" fine. Most have been bastardized to take a 1/8" pipe which later sending units have.
I'm glad you got your pump to seal, Congrats! I was making gaskets as well, If it wasn't against the law to deface money, I'd have used dollar bills for gasket material! (H'mm, and I never break the law)
You should be getting a very healthy flow from the return line from that pump, you will need some restriction on the squirter line, but I presume you had it connected up, right?
Did you modify your mainshaft and cam cover for full flow to the crank?

Dick

Post Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:07 am

Posts: 10
Hi thewildone, I'm not currently using piston oilers in my two U bikes. Both have a very similar configuration. Modified low rpm bypass UL pumps and 4 vanes rotor. Full flow to the crankshaft. The changes I made to the oil pump body were made according to the "Illustrated Guide to Improve Flathead V-Twin Oil Feed System", from Victory Library, booklet that I recommend with praise. Jim Casey and Jeffrey Diamond have the credits, so I believe. I further increased the flow by adding 4 vanes rotors from American Cycle Fabrication, made by Paul Friebus. So, the results achieved and shown in the manual were certainly doubled in my case. It's less oil flow compared to Frankenstein's ironhead oil pumps and the CHP oil pumps. I used the CHP pump in the past, great product, but I didn't have the patience to make all the necessary adjustments to keep the oil inside the engine. The bikes have close to stock specs 80" ULH, just a few adjustments like VM34 mikuni carburetors, mallory ignitions, peek seals in the intake manifolds and squish in the range of 40 thousand. The oil heats up a lot, which indicates that pistons and bores are being lubricated. I intend to use the CHP pump and also the sportster pump conversion as soon as I start using stroker flywheels and the finnish hi-comp heads ULR from v-twin.fi. Already get them. Not here to advertising, but I think you would like to read the booklet I told you about. I would follow Frankenstein's advice, I believe you're in the right path doing so. Cheers.

Post Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:07 am

Posts: 10
Just for clarification, I did not make all the changes to the oil pump recommended in the book, just those that aim to relieve oil passages and allow a greater flow out of the pump. There is another section of the book that instructs you how to use this increased flow by diverting it to a piston oilers system. I ignored this section because my intention was simply to increase the flow to the crankpin. And, as said before, I added a rotor with 4 vanes, which is not in the book but I consider it one of the most important changes. Just to be clear.
Hey Frankenstein, how's the your 4 vanes rotor bikes doing? Great week for everyone. Regards.

Post Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:47 am

Posts: 12
Frankenstein wrote:
Glad to see the good work! Not too many people take an interest in my travails.
1:If you can keep the oil in, and don't run a gauge on the system, you can leave the bypass closed. I opened the bypass to take stress off gasketed surfaces,(leaks) and to stop ruining the calibration on gauges by pinning the needle when cold.
2: "Big pump", just being lazy and not spelling out the centrifugal bypass pump.You know, the pump that's a "bigger Lump" :-)
3: The sleeve should block off the ports on the rotor chamber, so I'd say that part, at least, is good. If the ball and spring is removed from the pressure relief valve, and the passage in the cam cover for pressure relief oil is closed, Your take off for squirters should get plenty of oil.
4: Originally the thread pitch of the sending unit port on cam cover was, I believe, 3/8" fine. Most have been bastardized to take a 1/8" pipe which later sending units have.
I'm glad you got your pump to seal, Congrats! I was making gaskets as well, If it wasn't against the law to deface money, I'd have used dollar bills for gasket material! (H'mm, and I never break the law)
You should be getting a very healthy flow from the return line from that pump, you will need some restriction on the squirter line, but I presume you had it connected up, right?
Did you modify your mainshaft and cam cover for full flow to the crank?

Dick


Ok good deal. I'm going to try to leave the bypass closed in that case. I thought you were talking about the centrifugal bypass pump, but I wanted to make sure rather than assume! Yes, I removed the ball and spring from the pressure relief valve where the take off for the squirters is now. I'm not sure what thread pitch my cam cover has for the sending unit hole. I need to hold my sending unit up to a 1/8 pipe tap and see if it looks like that's what it is.... What I have done several times, is pull the flathead feed pump (distribution block) off and leave the hose from the IH pump disconnected only to find a quart or two of oil dumped out since removing the feed pump takes the check ball out of the equation lol.

So far, the return doesn't seem to be very strong. But again, I'm not sure I've run the engine long enough yet still. I do not have a restriction in the squirter line. Will you elaborate please?

Also, will you please elaborate on the full flow mod? I was not aware of that until you mentioned it just now. Is it something that can be done with the engine assembled already?????

I bought another UL feed pump to modify into the distribution block since this one cracked on me!!!! Then "new" one should arrive in the mail today!!!!!

Thanks again Dick!





gallojunior wrote:
Hi thewildone, I'm not currently using piston oilers in my two U bikes. Both have a very similar configuration. Modified low rpm bypass UL pumps and 4 vanes rotor. Full flow to the crankshaft. The changes I made to the oil pump body were made according to the "Illustrated Guide to Improve Flathead V-Twin Oil Feed System", from Victory Library, booklet that I recommend with praise. Jim Casey and Jeffrey Diamond have the credits, so I believe. I further increased the flow by adding 4 vanes rotors from American Cycle Fabrication, made by Paul Friebus. So, the results achieved and shown in the manual were certainly doubled in my case. It's less oil flow compared to Frankenstein's ironhead oil pumps and the CHP oil pumps. I used the CHP pump in the past, great product, but I didn't have the patience to make all the necessary adjustments to keep the oil inside the engine. The bikes have close to stock specs 80" ULH, just a few adjustments like VM34 mikuni carburetors, mallory ignitions, peek seals in the intake manifolds and squish in the range of 40 thousand. The oil heats up a lot, which indicates that pistons and bores are being lubricated. I intend to use the CHP pump and also the sportster pump conversion as soon as I start using stroker flywheels and the finnish hi-comp heads ULR from v-twin.fi. Already get them. Not here to advertising, but I think you would like to read the booklet I told you about. I would follow Frankenstein's advice, I believe you're in the right path doing so. Cheers.


I'm a little leary of Friebus. I got my top end from him and I was a little offput that they charged my card for the jugs, etc. and then told me for 6 or so weeks that they were about to ship. They told me this repeatedly, and they of course were no where near ready to ship. Actually, I was ignored most of the time. I finally got the top end obviously, but I don't really appreciate being given the run around and told they were about to ship when they were weeks away from being done. I was kind of disappointed when they finally arrived to see "Made in India" on the box which the jugs came in. I guess Paul just ports and polishes jugs he obtains from elsewhere, presumably they all come from India. The port work was decent, but I would have just obtained the jugs elsewhere and ported them myself if I knew what I was getting into. The threads that the intake screws onto were totally trashed on one jug also, I had to restore the threads in a very tedious manner with a needle file until I finally could get the intake to thread on. That one still is a bitch when threading it on or unscrewing it...... I don't mean to bash anyone by any means, just sharing my honest experience.

I ordered the book you described, hoping to combine that with Dick's information and guidance to continue my understanding of the oiling on these BTSVs.

Post Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:01 pm

Posts: 10
Really unpleasant to hear about your frustrating experience with the cylinders. I haven't bought from them in a long time, but when I dealt with them, my contact was basically with Barbara Friebus, now deceased. I never had any problems other than small delays. It's been a few years now when I last bought from them, 3 four-vanes rotors. Small businesses change over time, not always for the better, especially in difficult times and working for clients with a very specific demand, like ours. I have seen good products made in India, Indonesia, China and products with suspicious quality made in highly developed countries, so I would not mind using the cylinders you have. I heard good reports on these cylinders. But for a friend, I would recommend the cylinders that are currently being made by Anders in Sweden. For those who are purists they may not be suitable for restoration because they do not have those OEM castings in the cylinder base, but that's not my case.

Post Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:41 pm

Posts: 12
I got another UL flatside pump about a week ago. I've been slammed with work so I just now took it apart and gave it a good scrub with dawn dish soap. It's now soaking in a can of gasoline. I'm going to clean it up real good then modify this one and slap it back on the UL!!!!

I also got a little distracted putting a kicker kit in my sporty chopper. That might have something to do with me not working on this UL for a few days lol

Here's my sporty choppper:

Image

Image

Image
Trans pulled for kicker conversion

Image
New mainshaft installed for kicker. Waiting on new 1st and 3rd countershaft gears to arrive before I button it up.

Gallo,
I got the book you mentioned in the mail today detailing the BTSV oil pump. Very informative and interesting. Well worth the 20 bucks. I will be tucking that in with the rest of my documentation on the UL.

Post Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:10 pm

Posts: 10
Nice chop job!!! Interesting the way you shaved the camchest cover, really. And everything else, the rear chain with exposed trans pinion, wheel covers, frisco mounted tank. it looks like a blast to ride. Congrats for the work, this bike is so seventies, Thin and classy!

Post Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:33 am

Posts: 12
Thanks gallo!!!! I got the idea to chop the cam cover from the web. Monkey see monkey do hahaha. I do like the fact that with the cam cover cut down, it is very reminiscent of the BTSV from which it ultimately descended from! That was totally the look I was going for!! Long, skinny, minimalist frisco style! That bike started off as a 2003 1200 sporty. Rode it stock for several years and then chopped it about a year ago. Me and a buddy chopped this one, and built his panhead chopper at the same time. Took maybe 1 or 2 months to build both because we were going full bore on it!

Once I button the kicker back up, the kicker cover being spaced away from the cam cover I think will also be a cool look that pays respects to the BTSV! Because, at first glance, it won't look like the unit design that the sporty is, but something more like the BTs with their separate transmissions. My plan is to run it as it is, and then possibly consider cutting and chopping down the kicker cover also.

Image
Kicker cover with brass pedal.



I have done everything needed to modify this other BTSV flatside supply pump in order to slap it on there. I will keep the one I was using that is cracked and maybe try to repair it someday. I have welded cast iron with some success before. But in the meantime, it seemed to make the most sense to obtain anouther pump and modify it according to Dick's write-up and press on with it. The only thing I have to do is take some of that aluminum roundstock in one of the pictures and turn it down in a lathe to make another ring to block off the rotor chamber.

Image
Cracked pump on left, "new" to me pump on right.


Image
1/4" aluminum rod pressed into original pump inlet supply/feed hole

Image
Both pumps side by side with aluminum roundstock pictured above. Will use that to machine down another ring to press into the rotor chamber then keep moving forward!




Dick, are you still here? Will you please elaborate on a restriction in the line going to the piston oilers, and, the pinion oiling mod you spoke of?

Post Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:02 am

Posts: 10
Yes I agree, I see the sportster version of the evolution engine as the great-grandson of the big twin sidevalve. I didn't even know about the existence of this kickstar kit. In my case it would be a painful challenge to kick a 74" engine with a compression ratio around 9:1 or 10:1 because I have a bad right knee, which is why I really enjoy like low compression engines. I certainly would have to adapt one of those compression release valves in the heads made by JIM'S or S&S. You already asked Frankenstein a question, I don't want to skip the line. When he shows up here I have a little question for him too, bahaha. Greetings!

Post Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:11 pm

Posts: 23
Wildone!
We spoke over the winter awhile back about ACF. I have a couple thousand miles on my big port cylinders and wanted to let you know what I have found.

First off I would replace both of the oversize nipples immediately. Both of mine started to leak after about 100 miles. Paul does not use any sealer on the threads. I would be happy to discuss how I did it over the phone with you. I figure after 100 miles the paint seal gives and you develop an air leak where the nipple meets the head. I know for a fact Paul does not pressure test his heads... I fixed mine with about 40 dollars in parts and supplies and had to pull my whole top end. If you haven't installed yours yet, fix em now. I can even loan a $60 tool I bought that made removing/installing the nipples a simple procedure.

Other than that I love these cylinders. I've got a couple thousand miles on them now. I leave for sturgis on my 37 84 inch ul on friday morning. It's going to be a great ride! Good to see you on here. -Matt

Post Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:54 pm

Posts: 1731
Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Hello, I'm back... Not been at the computer too much lately. Re restriction on the squirter feed, I was just saying that if you weren't using the feed to plug it. In fact, I found that by making the clearance larger around the case through bolt where the banjo fitting and using line to feed the squirters, I got better flow from them.
On the continuous feed to the crank, I trenched the mainshaft bushing in the cam cover so that oil went into the cavity in the cam cover at the end of the mainshaft. Then plugged the small relief passage drilled in the cam cover so oil was forced into the mainshaft. I also drilled the plug in the end of the mainshaft to pass oil.
I met Jim Casey 13 or so years ago at the first or second Rhinebeck meet. Smart guy and he had pretty much developed his pump design at that time. I have a preliminary copy of his booklet somewhere about. He'd done alot of research on oil flow through the pump body to come up with his modifications.
On Paul, when he did big nipples on my cylinders I bought, he brazed the larger nipples in place, machining the jugs to mate them up, no threads involved at all. They lined up o.k., the usual twisting of jugs to get them "just right". That was around 2013? Anyway, shortly after Barbara died. Recently had a talk with someone who knows Paul and sees him regularly, the jist of the conversations is that Paul has had some problems adjusting to several personal losses. Doesn't make your nipples seal any better for knowing that, but there it is.
Dick

Post Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:33 am

Posts: 12
gallojunior wrote:
Yes I agree, I see the sportster version of the evolution engine as the great-grandson of the big twin sidevalve. I didn't even know about the existence of this kickstar kit. In my case it would be a painful challenge to kick a 74" engine with a compression ratio around 9:1 or 10:1 because I have a bad right knee, which is why I really enjoy like low compression engines. I certainly would have to adapt one of those compression release valves in the heads made by JIM'S or S&S. You already asked Frankenstein a question, I don't want to skip the line. When he shows up here I have a little question for him too, bahaha. Greetings!


Hell yes! From the BTSV to the K model, to the ironhead and ultimately the EVO sporty!! IMO, HD messed up when they deleted the trap door for transmission access, and, went to rubber mounts in 2004......... I've had plenty of friends with rubbermounts and they don't vibrate less, they just vibrate differently. Part of the HD experience is the vibration from that common crankpin V twin anyways so why mess with a good thing?!?

I've got the kicker kit in now and I've been working on tidying up some wires and getting ready to re-plumb my rear brake line in with a longer braided line, new pressure switch etc. I put new plugs in it today as the old ones were carbon fouled, and just plain worn out. The gap was not .040" like it's supposed to be but closer to .060" simply from electrode wear...... Put some fresh plugs, gapped accordingly and it has so far been firing up in 1-3 kicks cold. Seems to like about half enrichener..... The electric starter is still in there for now, but in a few primary oil changes I will delete it also.

I think this evo sporty is around 9:1 from what I recall? It has kicked back on me a few times hahahaha.

No worries man we're all just havin a good time here, skip away! No assigned seating here :D


montuckymatt wrote:
Wildone!
We spoke over the winter awhile back about ACF. I have a couple thousand miles on my big port cylinders and wanted to let you know what I have found.

First off I would replace both of the oversize nipples immediately. Both of mine started to leak after about 100 miles. Paul does not use any sealer on the threads. I would be happy to discuss how I did it over the phone with you. I figure after 100 miles the paint seal gives and you develop an air leak where the nipple meets the head. I know for a fact Paul does not pressure test his heads... I fixed mine with about 40 dollars in parts and supplies and had to pull my whole top end. If you haven't installed yours yet, fix em now. I can even loan a $60 tool I bought that made removing/installing the nipples a simple procedure.

Other than that I love these cylinders. I've got a couple thousand miles on them now. I leave for sturgis on my 37 84 inch ul on friday morning. It's going to be a great ride! Good to see you on here. -Matt


Image

This is your bike isn't it?!?!

Yes I would love to hear about what you did. PM me your phone number. I'm in Oklahoma.

Damn! Had this engine in and out of the frame and built and torn down so many times now to fix one thing or another! Although if it's just the top end that would be easier!! I have temporarily zip tied a goofy-stupid plastic dirtbike tank on the handlebars to I can run it and leave everything accessible without having to fiddle with removing the dash and tanks and everything. Here's a picture of what I'm talking about, from a screenshot on my phone.

Image

I wonder if there is some way I could pressure test these and see if they're good. Might have to try to think something up there.



Frankenstein wrote:
Hello, I'm back... Not been at the computer too much lately. Re restriction on the squirter feed, I was just saying that if you weren't using the feed to plug it. In fact, I found that by making the clearance larger around the case through bolt where the banjo fitting and using line to feed the squirters, I got better flow from them.
On the continuous feed to the crank, I trenched the mainshaft bushing in the cam cover so that oil went into the cavity in the cam cover at the end of the mainshaft. Then plugged the small relief passage drilled in the cam cover so oil was forced into the mainshaft. I also drilled the plug in the end of the mainshaft to pass oil.
I met Jim Casey 13 or so years ago at the first or second Rhinebeck meet. Smart guy and he had pretty much developed his pump design at that time. I have a preliminary copy of his booklet somewhere about. He'd done alot of research on oil flow through the pump body to come up with his modifications.
On Paul, when he did big nipples on my cylinders I bought, he brazed the larger nipples in place, machining the jugs to mate them up, no threads involved at all. They lined up o.k., the usual twisting of jugs to get them "just right". That was around 2013? Anyway, shortly after Barbara died. Recently had a talk with someone who knows Paul and sees him regularly, the jist of the conversations is that Paul has had some problems adjusting to several personal losses. Doesn't make your nipples seal any better for knowing that, but there it is.
Dick


Thankyou for getting back to us here Dick. I'm contemplating what you've said and will surely be back with more questions once I get to that point. Would you happen to have pictures of the crank continuous feed mods? I'm a very visual learner and it helps me immenseley to be able to see something.

I understand about Paul having trouble adjusting. I miss my dad every day, and it seems to gradually get easier, but never something you get over.

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