Board index Flathead Power-Technical Questions, Answers, and Suggestions 45 Flatties Generator problems

Generator problems

Post Fri May 24, 2019 9:47 am

Posts: 30
Hallo,
I got a problem that im trying to figure out and thought mayby someone here had an answer to?

I got a 32e generator that i changed the fields in to 65a ones. I have tested it by grounding the field and putting 12v to the armature, and it spins like a motor. To this generator i got a v-twin regulator called 32-0071. I have connected it with battery to no 3(marked bat) armature and idiot light ground to nr 1, field to nr 2.
I have tested the f and a connections on the generator with a multimeter (to dubble check that i havent confused them), messured from the pole to ground, i get about 1 ohm on the armature, and 6 ohm messuring on the field.
The generator has been polarised with 12v to the armature.

The idiot light stays on with engine running and i get no v increase when i messure it. When i messure on the regulator i only get voltage on the nr3 (bat) connection, nothing on the others. No difference if the engine is running or not. This confuses me, shouldent i be having at least 12v on the armature?

Anyone got any ideas where my problem is?
Thank you/ Oskar

Post Sat May 25, 2019 4:50 am

Posts: 1717
Location: Interlaken, NY USA

First glance says you made all the connections right.
Here's what I'd suggest:
Disconnect generator from regulator.
Repolarize generator by connecting good 12 volt battery Plus to armature term, minus to genny case and ground field to case as well. Hold for a couple of seconds.
With no other connections, hook meter to Armature and ground, hook field terminal to ground start bike and look for voltage on meter. If all is good in generator, voltage should take off and you'll see plenty of volts, 20-30 anyway.
If this test gives good results, suspect the regulator. Regulator will need a good ground to function, so check that.
If genny didn't respond to the stand alone test, Check out genny next.
First, Motoring is not a very reliable test. It will tell you if a generator is bad, but not if it's good :D
One possible problem that's easy to fix is to reverse the field coil leads. They are sensitive to which end goes where. Reverse the connections you've made with the two field leads, ie, which one is on the F terminal, and which one is hooked to the A terminal.
After swapping, polarize, and try the stand alone meter only test.
If it now works, great, hook up regulator and hope for good results.
If it still doesn't work, and you're doubly sure of all internal connections in the generator, no shorting of "A" and "F" terminals where they pass through the housing, etc, etc, you're going to need to have the amature growled to be sure it's in good condition.
Well, that's your basic generator testing 101.
Good luck and report back what you find,
DD

Post Sat May 25, 2019 1:36 pm

Posts: 30
Thank you very mutch for your time and thoughts. I will try to test it as you suggest and then reverse the field connections to a and f. No need to test swapping what end goes between the two fields? I will repport back when i know more! :) Thanks again

Post Sat May 25, 2019 7:18 pm

Posts: 1717
Location: Interlaken, NY USA

65A fields are wired in series, so you don't need to be concerned about the interconnect between the two windings.
Good luck.
DD

Post Sun May 26, 2019 3:30 am

Posts: 30
Tested the engine with the relay disconnected, field grounded. 0v output on the armature. So i changed the field connections, with the same procedure i get 20+ v. And there is a totally different sound when polerising now, thougt about that earlier to. Wasent really the same clunk sound to ir as it use to be.... :)

Thought everything would work now so connected everything as it was before, started it but the light was stil on an v dropped to 10-11v. Tested grounding the field and the v went upp to 17-18v at idle and the light went of. Used the summer on ground and the relay housing, and it seems to be good. Motor sits on unpainted enginemounts so was guite confident on this before to, but tested any how.. :)

Seems like i have a problem with the relay to, but at least the generator is good. Thank you very mutch for your help, i am very greatfull! :)

Post Sun May 26, 2019 7:52 am

Posts: 1717
Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Glad to hear that the generator is now working, that's good news.
Just to be clear, the V-twin part number you listed earlier is for a Voltage Regulator, that's housed in a case that looks like a Relay. The two devices are radically different, as you probably know.
I wouldn't invest in another of that type of regulator, I've not heard much good about them.
If you're interested, I make and sell an electronic regulator, lifetime warranty. Can't advertise the price, but I collect pictures of dead presidents, particularly the 18th. PM if interested.
DD

Post Mon May 27, 2019 4:11 am

Posts: 30
Yes i know that it isent really a relay, just was easier to discribe what i ment this way :) The dealer that sold me this one will send a new one, but i will remember that and contact you the next time. Thank you again!
/ Oskar

Post Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:57 pm

Posts: 30
I got my new "relay" today, and went ahead and installed it. Unfortunately with the same results as before. The generator wont start charging, got about 8.4 v running, when i ground the field the idiot light goes of.. Tested polarising it again, but it does nothing. Any one got any more ideas?

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:44 am

Posts: 3431
Location: Central Illinois, USA
Freeway_mad wrote:
...Any one got any more ideas?
Electronics are inscrutable, Oskar!

But DD's advice is more than intuition.

(Even common catalog "relays" supposed to be a 'real' relay with just a capacitor-or-whatever inside were bad jokes. I probably still have one in "dead" inventory. Please make certain your dealer knows the differences...)

Nothing's more frustrating than elektroniks for me! So I wish you patience.

....Cotten
Last edited by Cotten on Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:57 pm

Posts: 1717
Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. It's pretty clear where the problem lies.
As for electricity Cotten, don't feel alone, no one really understands it, they just made some rules that seem to work most of the time. In fact, some of the latest studies of black holes is shedding light on some of the darker aspects of electricity. ( sorry, couldn't help myself :D )
DD

Post Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:09 am

Posts: 30
Where do you mean that the problem is? :)

Post Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:40 am

Posts: 30
Connected a bosh style relay i had laying, dont really know the condition on it. Had the battery charged (before i tried the other to) with 13v whitout load. Connected the a and idiot light to d+, f to df. At idle the idiot light shines, but goes out with a little more throttle. got about 12.4v with the engine running sligthly above idle. What is the usual output with a 6v armature?

Post Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:35 pm

Posts: 3431
Location: Central Illinois, USA
By experience only, Freeway_mad,

Idiot light flickering but going out cruising is good.
Idiot light going dim, but then glowing brighter and brighter when revved is bad.

Beware the battery MUST be charged and hold demand.

Geez I hate electrons.

....Cotten

Post Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:07 pm

Posts: 1290
Location: Ojo Caliente,NM,USA
Freeway_mad wrote:
Connected a bosh style relay i had laying, dont really know the condition on it. Had the battery charged (before i tried the other to) with 13v whitout load. Connected the a and idiot light to d+, f to df. At idle the idiot light shines, but goes out with a little more throttle. got about 12.4v with the engine running sligthly above idle. What is the usual output with a 6v armature?


I don't know which Bosch Regulator you have but if ya gots the one for a CH it will be set way too low for a battery to charge. If ya gots the battery mounted in the middle of the oil tank like most silly ass Hardly riders you need to pull the regulator cover and adjust the voltage coil to about 13.5 volts at about 1,800 rpm. The coil with the finest wire is the voltage coil and more spring tension increases the voltage.
Dusty

Post Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:29 pm

Posts: 30
Thank you Dusty dave, adjusted the spring tension and everything seems to be working great. But im having a hard time understanding why the new "relays" wont work. They are made to work with this generator, and everything is wirred excaktly as they say it should. 2 new in the box voltage regulators that dont work seems like useless quality. Would be interresting to know if anybody sucessfully used them?

Post Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:11 pm

Posts: 1717
Location: Interlaken, NY USA

Unfortunately, 2 new units right out of the box is not unlikely from that particular supplier. The overall size of the unit is barely large enough to dissipate the heat the unit throws off doing it's job. Inside, the components used are just not rated for the heat, current, and voltage encountered.
As for the 6 volt armature, now, thanks to the new tachometer I've installed on my BTSV, I can answer that the 6V armature, 12 volt field starts charging at about 1200 engine rpms!
DD


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