Board index Flathead Power-Technical Questions, Answers, and Suggestions 45 Flatties Pa's 42WLA Build

Pa's 42WLA Build

Post Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:40 pm
Pa Site Admin

Posts: 6034
Location: Ohio USA

Cotten wrote:
Whew, shouldn't be the float, then, Pa!

So you have no air intake attached so you can see this?
How many kicks choked do you think it might need to start? More than two?

Sorry if I do not reply quickly, but I am packing out for the international Davenport Meet...

....Cotten


I have the air cleaner removed so I can view the carb opening. One kick choked floods it out. I tried only one click choke and it still flooded out. The float is working perfectly. Something else is not. The engine used to start with the chole wide open, no throttle, and barely an advance on the timing. One kick start every time before the nos cork float swelled up.

Post Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:47 pm
Pa Site Admin

Posts: 6034
Location: Ohio USA

Samsup wrote:
could it be that with the swollen original cork float a piece of it got stuck in the low speed needle hole? if I am not mistaken this lever is moved ( dont know up or down) when choked, so it might clear the passage then, but not clear the fuelpassage when in "normal operating mode"


I think something is preventing fuel at idle setting Samsup. I guess I will just have to go through the carb again completely and verify no ports are blocked. I am picking up a quality spray bottle to shoot a mist of fuel into the carb just to see how the engine reacts. If it sparks to life then I know I have a fuel flow issue. My buddy told me to shoot some starting fluid into the carb but I will not do that. I do not trust starting fluids because they combust hot and quickly.

Post Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:28 pm

Posts: 2717
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Pa wrote:
Samsup wrote:
My buddy told me to shoot some starting fluid into the carb but I will not do that. I do not trust starting fluids because they combust hot and quickly.


That is a problem because?

Post Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:47 pm

Posts: 3296
Location: Central Illinois, USA
Aside from the safety issues, Chris,...

It really won't make the engine respond in a manner that will give a clue.

There is no logical approach to problems beyond taking it apart, inspecting, and putting it back together again.
Often the gremlin jumps out laughing, even though everything was in order, we thought.
(Its part of why motorcycles are female. Even Chiefs.)

....Cotten

Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:29 am

Posts: 319
Location: Ohio
What you’re describing is exactly what my 45 was doing and I found that replacing the coil fixed the problem. I found the coil was not throwing a dependable spark each time the points opened. By checking for spark at the plugs while manually opening and closing the points a few dozen times I found that I was not getting a spark each time the points opened. It was a hit and miss kind of thing. I changed the coil and the bike went right back to a one kick machine.

The bad news is, good luck finding a good coil. I have gone thru two aftermarket coils in the past two years and in need of another one right now so if you find a good supplier please let me know.

Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:04 pm
Pa Site Admin

Posts: 6034
Location: Ohio USA

Chris Haynes wrote:
Pa wrote:
Samsup wrote:
My buddy told me to shoot some starting fluid into the carb but I will not do that. I do not trust starting fluids because they combust hot and quickly.


That is a problem because?


I've seen folks blow v-8 engines up using starting fluids. If used in a diesel, the compression ratio is so high it doesn't worry me.

Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:08 pm
Pa Site Admin

Posts: 6034
Location: Ohio USA

ohio-rider wrote:
What you’re describing is exactly what my 45 was doing and I found that replacing the coil fixed the problem. I found the coil was not throwing a dependable spark each time the points opened. By checking for spark at the plugs while manually opening and closing the points a few dozen times I found that I was not getting a spark each time the points opened. It was a hit and miss kind of thing. I changed the coil and the bike went right back to a one kick machine.

The bad news is, good luck finding a good coil. I have gone thru two aftermarket coils in the past two years and in need of another one right now so if you find a good supplier please let me know.


I thought coil to start with Steve but when using my spark tester the spark jumps a 1/4" gap. My coil is an original oem wla coil. I have some 6 volt Jap coils. I might rig one up to check spark consistency. I got to pick up a quality spray bottle which will not dissolve when gasoline is put into it, I want to mist the carb opening when the choke is fully open and the throttle is fully closed before I mess with a coil test change.

Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:19 pm

Posts: 319
Location: Ohio
Paul, how about doing an ohm's test on your present coil and post what you find out? With no wires connected to the coil, can you provide two readings? What are the ohm's between the primary windings, and what are the ohm's between the secondary winding.

Edit: if you don’t want to remove the plug wires from the coil, that fine, it doesn’t subtract that much from the total, but the wires from the battery and points must be removed before testing.

Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:08 pm
Pa Site Admin

Posts: 6034
Location: Ohio USA

ohio-rider wrote:
Paul, how about doing an ohm's test on your present coil and post what you find out? With no wires connected to the coil, can you provide two readings? What are the ohm's between the primary windings, and what are the ohm's between the secondary winding.

Edit: if you don’t want to remove the plug wires from the coil, that fine, it doesn’t subtract that much from the total, but the wires from the battery and points must be removed before testing.


Walk me through the olm's test please Steve. I am blind with electrics until someone takes me through it step by step.

Post Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:51 am

Posts: 319
Location: Ohio
The primary side of the coil are the two small tabs on each side of the coil where the wires from the points and battery are connected. The secondary side of the coil is where the plug wires go into the coil.

If your ohm meter is settable, set it to read in the 0-20 range. With the wires disconnected from the coil take a reading between the two small tabs of the coil. The reading should be between 1.0 and 1.5 ohm’s.

Now set your ohm meter to the 20k setting to read the secondary side of coil, (plug wire holes). A good O.E.M. coil should read about 3.5k ohm’s between the plug holes. A good Taiwan coil should read around 17k ohm’s.

Finally check that there is no continuity between the primary and secondary sides of the coil by placing one of the meters probes into one of the plug holes and the other probe to the positive side tab of coil. There should be no continuity between them since they are separate wiring inside the coil.

I have found that with all the bad coils I have checked that the primary side of the coils has always been OK. It always seems to be the secondary side of the coils that don’t pass the test.

Post Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:01 pm
Pa Site Admin

Posts: 6034
Location: Ohio USA

Thanks Steve. That sounds simple enough, even for me. Can I use disconnected plug wires as the secondary side or do I need to pull both plug wires out of the coil to do the test ? My plug wires are nos wla radio suppression wires.

Post Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:21 pm

Posts: 319
Location: Ohio
The guy who told me this method of testing told me to test the coil with the plug wires removed from the coil, BUT, I have found that if you have known good plug wires that testing at the plug boot only changes the results by a few hundred ohm’s and doesn’t seem relevant when testing for thousands. Not to mention the pain in the butt it is to remove and re-install the wires on an O.E.M. coil. The aftermarket coils plug wires are much easier to remove from the coil after removing the three tiny screws around the top lid and lifting it out of the way.

Post Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:37 pm

Posts: 55
Location: London, England
ohio-rider wrote:
The primary side of the coil are the two small tabs on each side of the coil where the wires from the points and battery are connected. The secondary side of the coil is where the plug wires go into the coil.

If your ohm meter is settable, set it to read in the 0-20 range. With the wires disconnected from the coil take a reading between the two small tabs of the coil. The reading should be between 1.0 and 1.5 ohm’s.

Now set your ohm meter to the 20k setting to read the secondary side of coil, (plug wire holes). A good O.E.M. coil should read about 3.5k ohm’s between the plug holes. A good Taiwan coil should read around 17k ohm’s.

Finally check that there is no continuity between the primary and secondary sides of the coil by placing one of the meters probes into one of the plug holes and the other probe to the positive side tab of coil. There should be no continuity between them since they are separate wiring inside the coil.

I have found that with all the bad coils I have checked that the primary side of the coils has always been OK. It always seems to be the secondary side of the coils that don’t pass the test.


I tried this test on a 12v ElectraGlide coil. Got a reading on primary side but none on secondary side; yet this coil got me home when my repop crap let me down (again). Also tested it on bench with CB assembly and battery and it worked. Tried the test with a black Andrews coil on U and got readings. Any ideas?

Ron

Post Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:20 am

Posts: 1189
Location: Ojo Caliente,NM,USA
On the one that didn't read from plug wire to plug wire try reading from plug wire to the case.
Dusty

Post Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:05 am
Pa Site Admin

Posts: 6034
Location: Ohio USA

Sorry it took so long to get back to you Steve. My Son-In-Law’s Father passed away. I am sure going to miss him. He was a hoot to shoot the bull with. He was a full term Nam Vet as well. His wife passed away just 2 months ago. Guess they are back together now.

Anyhow, your instruction is great, however my knowledge is still novice on how to use my meter properly. I have two different ones. The one in the first two pics has a thumb wheel on the left side. I brightened up the one view and placed a yellow arrow pointing at that thumb wheel. I assume the yellow RX10 and RX1K are the only ohms selections on this meter. This meter also only has two probe ports. If I can use this meter, where do I place the selector dial and what do I do with the thumb wheel ? The second meter pic shown has three probe ports. I assume the blue colored numbers on the top left side are its ohms selections. Where do I place the probe leads on this meter and at what selection ? I used the 3 port one to build my 32E generator and I forget how I used it now. My memory is fading fast, along with every other part of me.

Image

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Post Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:57 am

Posts: 319
Location: Ohio
The last photo of yours with the 3 ports is similar to mine. Hook your black probe to the center port hole and the red probe to the port hole to the left which has the volt, ohm and mini-amp icons marked below it.

Turn the dial one click counter clockwise to the position marked 20M. The meter will read 1.0, now touch the probes to each other and the meter should read 0. You can check the primary side of coil using that setting on the meter. You should get around 1.5 ohm’s. Now turn the dial to the setting marked 20K and take a reading between the two plug holes.

Ron, I’ve had the same thing happen with a few of the Taiwan coils I’ve got laying around. Sometimes if I keep wiggling the probes around inside the plug holes I’ll get a quick glimpse of a reading but can’t get a constant reading. I’m as clueless as everyone else about these stupid things but maybe someone will chime in with a sure fire way to check theses coils.

Dusty, This morning I tried what you suggested on a few coils that I suspect are no good, and taking a reading between the plug holes and the body of the coil, and couldn’t get a reading there either.

Post Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:02 pm
Pa Site Admin

Posts: 6034
Location: Ohio USA

I sure hope you are not tired of babysitting me Steve. I tried out the olms testing but did not get far. My multimeter is not functioning correctly. The dial is super sensitive to the position and will not hold a reading. If I touch the dial it reads all over the place. I figure it has given up the ghost so I went and purchased another one. I don’t comprehend the numerals and I am back to square one of position points. This new meter has a totally different face than the other three port one. I assume the center port will be used for the red lead and the bottom port for the black lead for those tests. Below is a pic of this new meter and a scan of one page of the instruction booklet. I also assume I will be using the resistance block of this booklet page. What I do not understand is the numerals are completely different than the ones on my failed meter.

Image

Image

Post Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:23 pm

Posts: 1189
Location: Ojo Caliente,NM,USA
Dusty, This morning I tried what you suggested on a few coils that I suspect are no good, and taking a reading between the plug holes and the body of the coil, and couldn’t get a reading there either.[/quote]

Ok if they read infinity between the plug wire terminals and from the plug wire terminals to ground and they still spark, they either have a broken wire or a corroded connection at the plug wires. Either way they are a walk home waiting to happen.
Dusty

Post Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:15 am

Posts: 319
Location: Ohio
Oh, I know all too well about that walking home thing. For 8 years my 45 was the most dependable bike in the garage and in the past 2 years I’m afraid to ride it to the gas station. I’m hoping to find time to look at it again before the end of the season but it’s getting chilly around here early this year, and I still have to finish up some loose ends with a Brit bike I’m getting ready to sell before the snow flys.

Pa, I have the same problem getting a constant reading when checking the secondary side of the coil and many others have had the same problem but none ever reported back whether or not a new meter made any difference.

If you haven’t figured it out yet, on your new meter the black probe goes to the lower port marked COMMON and the red one goes the middle port. From the off position turning the dial 180 degrees will set the meter to read up to the 200 ohm’s range for checking the primary side. If the new meter works any more dependable please let me know because if I’ve been doing all my testing with a bad meter them I’ll have to start from scratch again.

Post Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:30 pm
Pa Site Admin

Posts: 6034
Location: Ohio USA

Double Posted..OOPS :oops:
Last edited by Pa on Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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