Board index Flathead Power- General Announcements and Various Subjects Shoot The Bull IRON REDSKIN


Use this forum for general conversation amongst yourselves when you don't have anything better to do. We like gossip! Try to keep the technical out of it.
Post Wed May 19, 2021 3:40 pm

Posts: 124
"Fewer than a dozen"
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The Classic Motorcycle July 1983

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chuck 1939 (2).jpg (118.8 KiB) Viewed 980 times

1939 in The Classic Motorcycle 1983

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1936 in Iron Redskin 1977

It is the same bike

Post Thu May 20, 2021 5:26 pm

Posts: 124
If manufacturing ran from 1936 to mid 1940, that's 4-1/2 years

4.5 x 12 units = 54 bikes
4.5 x 14 units = 63 bikes

The War was under way in 1939 and Indian was already producing Military bikes in 1940 = 340, 640, 741, 841.
IF the Crocker was offered to Indian as a model, the company was too heavily invested in military contracts as well as the 1940 civilian model chassis. Not an option.

The 300 series looks impossible, the 200 series is just as bad and the 100 series looks like being part of a matching set.

The new LA company bike has the engine stamp 42-80-400, built in 2012 or when ever but certainly not 1942.

Because Murray looper was totally independent and out side of the Vintage bike circle. His hand written receipts are rock solid provenance yet his name is not even mentioned by anyone.

'IRON REDSKIN' has been reprinted 1977 1978 1982 1984 1987 1988 1990 1992 1994 ..... and 2010.
Not one word has been changed which indicates the Author was happy with the way it was and made no attempt to correct anything

Post Fri May 21, 2021 3:06 pm

Posts: 124
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Jan 1993 Cycle World by Allan Girdler

Chucks total was 53

The totals kept changing through the years.
The only identity a Crocker has is the engine stamp, which is nothing more than a hammer striking a punch, making contact with the crank case.

Post Sat May 22, 2021 1:50 pm

Posts: 124
"One of them was Ernie Skelton, a truck driver who happened to live around the corner from Vernon. Skelton was also a helluva salesman, Vernon recalls, endlessly proselytizing as to the superiority of the Crocker until the already susceptible Chuck was also ensnared in the Crocker web. In 1965, Vernon bought Crocker #39 for $365. In '68, Skelton bought a Small Tank model for $50.
In 1970, Vernon drove to Henderson, Nevada, with a truck and trailer and dragged back "five or six bikes and a bunch of parts" from a guy who'd got the last batch of Crocker stuff from a former Crocker employee named Elmo Looper.

Five or six? Chuck, did you ever have any idea what these things would be worth? "Of course not," says Vernon, "otherwise I'd've kept every one of them. Although Ernie and I did often commiserate as to why such a great-performing, beautiful motorcycle didn't cost more than it did..." CYCLE WORLD Aug 25 2010 ... l-feature/

The only guy with any connection to Elmo Looper was Murray Looper
The only guy with any bikes from Elmo, was Murray Looper, supported by hand written receipts for each bike sold

Post Sun May 23, 2021 5:44 pm

Posts: 124
4.0 out of 5 stars a classic reprint
Reviewed in the United States on January 31, 2014
Verified Purchase
suchers info and description of 741 and 640 are wrong (pg 239-243) which is then quoted in other books .
all in all it is a book worth reading for any indian fan. = Recommended ** ... 184425500X

^^^^ I bought this book in 2014 from Amazon and gave above response. I sold the book to try recover what money I could.

The Crocker section lacks any facts. Harry, Chuck and Skelton were too invested in the Brand to have any independent view.
The acknowledgement page of 'Iron Redskin' and 'Milwaukee Marvel' , both mention "the late Elmo Looper" , even though there was never any real world connection between Harry and Elmo Looper.

Why go to that length, to establish the connection?
SKELTON "restored" Harry's bike, plain and simple.

Murray Looper's family still remember Chuck and Skelton, yet it appears that all trace of Murray Looper has been erased, even though he was the source of Motorcycles, parts and the Bigsby drawings.

The amount of mistakes overall in the book, are too numerous and the amount of times that the book has been reprinted, indicates that no attempt was ever made to correct anything.

Today I could only give the book 1 out of 5, simply for the effort to publish a book that size.

So my Book review might be different from most, but I could not recommend this book to anyone and I wont


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